I prefer the slower burning Unique, and I also use it for .357 magnum, just more of it. No sh!t. I stopped handloading around 1985, so Im not certain how much technology has changed in that area, but in general it sounds like our experiences are similar. Currently using Titegroup, but started out with, and loaded many thousands of rounds, with Bullseye. Im new to loading the 38 for accuracy, but the biggest issue I found with case length is your crimp. No more lead in the barrel or on my hands. This is good, because the snub takes a lot of practice to have a consistent capability. Ive long since changed to a press, but that Lee Loader in its cardboard box is still in a storage box for obsolescent reloading gear. And I still think a 158 at 600 beats hell out of a 22 magnum of any stripe. You can always back off to the .32 S&W Long or .32 H&R Mag if you choose to. My Hornady book says for 158 gr L-SWC, Unique powder, CCI magnum primer the minimum listed (not sure if that's absolute minimum) is 4.3 and maximum is 4.7. Hornady Ethan Johns is a military professional with worldwide experience in specialized units. There seems to be a dearth of information using WST powder for the 38 Spl cartridge. Then duplicate with reloads for practice. Thats a pretty clear explanation and comparison of the NEEDS of the strength of the chamber for each caliber. I almost spit out my drink when I read your comment. I have a long way to go before I'm ready to compete, but enjoy plinking and hand loading. Battis, if you go to the very bottom of this page you will see Castpics. The 38 Special, practically snubnose 38 Specials, seem to do their best work with bullets right around the 155-160 grain range. You can fit 7.1gr of powder under the 125gn JHP bullet? Have you all found different seat depths to work better than what's in the manual? Rules say (e) Ammunition- Any safe .38 caliber ammunition using the 158 grain round nose or Semi-Wadcutter bullet only. So I'd think you should find a decent load for short line at about 700 Fps and for the long line at about 800. would also bridge the gap that the .38 versus .357 have in defensive loads. Minnesota. Thanks to all for the info. I load it almost exclusively though with either a powder coated or plated 125 grn bullet. That isnt unique to Bullseye, but is certainly more pronounced with the relatively small charges required. Posted: 4/17/2014 10:53:09 AM EST. Bullseye Handgun Powders Smokeless pistol powder Billions of rounds have been loaded with Bullseye since it was introduced in 1913. I was just trying to get a general consensus of what other guys were using. favorite cowboy load (38 spl) - SASS Wire - SASS Wire Forum Which left me with the last two. want me to write up an article about 3d printed .38 special bullets that Ive been working? You have entered an incorrect email address! WST seems like such a good powder in .45 ACP that I thought I might try it. Choosing a bullet is so simple. New to Reloading-Unique powder recipes for .38 special The 38 Special Ball round was designed a long time ago to comply with specifications laid down for ammo that was : 1) Compliant with the Hague Accords of 1907 in regard to "unnecessarily" injurious ammunition. You have never indicated what barrel length or brand or frame size you may be using these in. Many of these men had no real experience with the handgun, and we had but a few weeks to get them up to very high standards that most shooters will never reach. Go figure. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Hollow points are not. I'm still hunting for a DR load for my S&W M19-5. This is my plink load for the kids. But not too tough. Bullseye and NRA Distinguished Revolver Winchester's website has data for W231 and a 125 gr LRNFP, but not plated. Left to right:148 gr. Beginners to shooting can use a full size revolver or their carry gun with light to mild loads to become confident and familiar with marksmanship and trigger control. head I use 3.2gr. The stuff you learn shooting 20,000 reloads (on top of thousands of rounds of factory ammo) can be pretty interesting and I feel that Ive got a very good picture of what the .38 Special. Home About Partners Contact. People who prepare usually tend to focus on the survival basics: security/self-defense, water, food, first aid, sanitation/hygiene, knowing when to get out and when to stay put. is limited to either the various Charter Arms models, or as a training/target load in a .44 magnum size handguns. Does anyone have any luck with Jacked Bullets. Similarly on drills with set times such as firing five shots in five seconds onto a bull at ten yards, the Bullseye load allows a little more time per shot to take advantage of a great 1911 trigger and lets the shooter nearly push shots into the same hole. I started loading .38s with a Lyman nut cracker and a home made measure for Bullseye over 65 years ago. Classic loads are economical. Load shot well out of a variety of service handguns. At 25 you can get away with a lighter load. In several of the guns, the old standby couldnt quite duplicate the level of precision they exhibit with current production wadcutters from Black Hills or Winchester, but in each case, the load shot close to or right on the sights and nearly held the X ring. I have used everything from simple lead to the most advanced machined copper bullets and found them all to be extraordinarily easy to load and shoot. I like Bullseye in the 38 Special, and it was a consistent performer with the 125 grain bullets. By Now theres an old memory. As example, 5.8 6.0 grains UNIQUE with a 125 grain HP in a snub nose .357 revolver. (bullseyeforum.net). I have 4 handguns that will shoot .38. * All PLUS P loads for guns designed for it (20,000 PSI), (Cowboy loads shot in 7 1/2 bbl.revolver no need to reduce), ALL THESE LOADS ARE PLUS P, SPECIAL HOT 21,000 PSI. Ive been reloading and shooting for over 40 years and love revolvers but 90% of the time my carry gun is a Sig 365 with a 12 round mag and a spare. I use 3 gr. 3.8 gr. Ive saved all my .38 brass over the last couple of years for whenever I find time to get into reloading. Some medium fast powders would work with lighter weight bullets. .38 Special Chronograph Test | Perfect Union I guess its out of production now- I havent seen it (or heard of it) in years. Your email address will not be published. The more serious concern for some loaders is that the small charges of fast-burning powder take up little room in the case, making it possible to double charge a cartridge and exceed safe pressure. I have one that has been loaded about sixty times and it is still in use today. Im a big fan of .32 revolvers, I do think they are a superior choice for carrying and shooting than .38 is, but that doesnt mean I think .38 or .357 sucks, I just dont think theyre the best choices for a small frame revolver. I carried a lightly customized 4 inch heavy barrel model 10 for years, with a black cerakote job. 3 gr of WST in a 38 spl case with 125 gr plated bullet is a very light load. This Cast Reloading Bullet feeds great in automatics and has excellent accuracy in both the 9mm and 38 Super. This too is useful information. I burned up about 300 of them before giving up. 38 special , bullseye, and 125 grain lead rnfp Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting : The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and . Yeah, my wifes last gun, with +P it actually HURTS! I love a nice, full-size .357 Magnum on the range because it is so easy to train new shooters on. Its like a pellet gun with a little noise and smoke if using black powder. Swaged bullets do not have the hardness of poured (cast) lead. It seems to burn completely in the .38 and is not as critical as the faster powders like Bullseye. The .38 Special is the most popular of all centerfire revolver cartridges. Anyone that uses a J frame S&W should seriously think about swapping grips, and finding which set works for them. I am using this load in some .38 specials. The pistol or revolver of good quality is vital. Just got back into reloading 38 special again after a long hiatus with no revolver, and was instantly reminded of what a joy it is to reload. 5 are good choices. AA#2 is about the same burn rate, but burns much cleaner with less smoke in my guns. Hodgdon's Basic Reloading Manual, (The free one, available for the asking. It is less of an issue on a progressive press, but still requires attention. It's given me good results in the 2, 3 and 4 inch barreled. This represents a great start, and if thats all you do, youll still be far better off than the majority of the population. (Note H110 & W296 are the same as of 2008 as is HP-38 & W231), (IMR 4227 is same as H-4227 if made in Australia), * Blackhorn 209 is a black powder substitute with smokeless like qualities. Load it using wadcutter specs, and seat the bullet flush, like a wadcutter. JHP, (WC= WadCutter, SWC= Semi-WadCutter, HP= Hollow Point, RN= Round Nose), (JHP= Jacketed Hollow Point and if GC indicated, means Gas Check at bottom of lead bullet). Even better, is get some 38 S&W brass. defensive ammo. May 15, 2012. kc2za said: Hi All, I have been loading .38 spl with 2.7 gr. .38 Special +P Load Data - PowderThrough The majority of my shooting with .38 has taken place with soft lead bullets. Lord only knows how many cartridge cases I hammered with a plastic mallet into that Lee, it had to be thousands. My Hornady 11th edition shows this for 38 Special 158 gr lead RN, LSWCHP and LSWC. 41 Rem Mag 35,000 I get 1000 fps with this load. I agree, an airweight has snappy recoil. One cool load Im working on is two pellets of 000 Buck. To many shooters, .45 ACP means 230-grain hardball at 830 fps. The .38 Special remains very popular for personal protection and Michelle Hamilton shares her thoughts on the top loads for concealed carry, like this 158-grain SWCHP FBI Load, based on her testing. Thanks for the guidance and suggestions. This gun now wears factory synthetic grips which are decent but could use more girth behind the trigger guard. My J frame S&Ws are all older models, and came with the small grips that are still on some models. As an old bullseye guy I've stuck with Bullseye powder for almost 30yearsusing lead bullets. 38 special , bullseye, and 125 grain lead rnfp - The Firing Line Load it in 38 Special dies. Coming in 30 grains lighter and 80 fps slower than hardball, as well as being lead rather than jacketed, the 200/4.6 SWC is amazingly soft. Bullseye 3.2gr / 763fps --> 4.2gr / 892fps (max) Unique 4.3gr / 773fps --> 5.3gr / 944fps (max) 231 3.9gr / 733fps --> 4.8gr / 896pfs (max) These are out of a 5.5 inch barrel Edited June 25, 2016 by jschweg Dr. Phil Classifieds 712 Through the heyday of bullseye shooting over the various match courses of fire, there was probably a Mount Rushmore-sized mountain of powder loaded and combusted 2.7 grains at a time. 5 are good choices. The 9mm Bullseye load is a good stand-in for either training or match ammo, with the velocity putting the power factor comfortably over the minimum for action sports without too much extra oomph. Shoot cast and coated bullets and you can go much higher in load and velocity. (This is prevalent among most aftermarket designs- they are smallest in the longest, strongest finger area, and largest at the bottom pinkie area.). Reloading Data for .38 Special - Load Data - 1895Gunner I miss those days. I SEE THAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT USE THE AMMO FOR D/R. At belly button range, very nasty load. I started reloading 38 special as my first cartridge 8 years ago when I was 22, soooo.I have an old mans soul? 125 gr plated or 125 gr lead RN. The All-American .38 Special | Load Data Article Some use powders dispersed in liquids, some use electrostatic guns to spray dry powder on their bullets. The only way to shoot both 9mm and .38 special is to have two separate cylinders timed to the revolver. Recoil was so nasty that I quit after five shots and saved the rest of the box for my 6 Model 19 .357. My hand ached for a week. Hodgdons Clays, International, Universal and HP38 are good choices. revolver, with a 3 barrel, and 4 6 oz. JHP (now discontinued) 5 rounds . Shot many thousands of my bullseye powder reloads with it. Allgoodhits Posts : 726 Join date : 2017-09-17 Location : Northern Virginia Like I wanted a good carry gun that was light and reliable, so I decided that the .38 would fit and I just went with it. Try. The 158 gr cast plain base accuracy load was 4.0 gr 231 which gave 837 Fps and 15,900 psi. And for 99% of the actual real world needs of a citizen for self defense it will work just fine. But I would only be caught dead with one in my hands if I had to use one for self defense (pun intended). Ammunition is available everywhere handguns are legal. You can't rely on this because not all variables for YOUR cases and chamber and loading length, etc. Case life is excellent, especially for mild loads. Like almost all pistol cartridges called ".38" the .38 Special actually takes .357" diameter bullets. . I go with the cheap and easy shake and bake technique that requires only plastic Glad container with a lid, handful of black 6mm BBs and old toaster owen. My point being is I used the resources I have, looked elsewhere (The High Road, The Firing Line), and wanted to try here. Despite being well over one hundred years old, it still has perfect relevance for todays shooters, both novice and advanced. Therefore, the conventional wisdom is that they must be loaded to a lower velocity. Upload or insert images from URL. Reading the "WARNING" on the site, it states to not exceed the loads published and to start 10% below the loads shown and work up from there. That's usually +P power level in .38 Special. While I do have a GP100 in .357 magnum, I dont like shooting .38 special ammo out of it, because cleaning powder residue out of the longer chambers is a real bitch. What are YOU shooting? Hi. There have been guns Ive bought for the caliber, but the .38 wasnt one of those. I went to the grocery store to buy a loath of bread.. I cannot begin to fathom shooting 20,000 rounds out of that revolver! I bought him as a gift a 642 with the black rubber grips, a few speedloaders w/big knob tops, and Hornady 125 grain FTX loads. These grips seem quite comfortable and afford a pinkie finger rest for improved control albeit with a certain loss of concealability. Top .38 Special Loads for Carry - Firearms News You need a .357 Magnum revolver if you want to try a 9MM cylinder. I use CCI Snake shot for two and Buffalo Bore short Barrel 130 gr. I don't know what bullets you have, but Berry's recommends per their website to use hard cast data for their plated bullets. The least is usually supplied as a large cylindrical billet weighing several hundred pounds. Testing out some bullseye with 125 berry's bullets.. Last time we took it to the range, I was trying to cycle the old +P ammo to load standard Lehigh ammo, I fired one shot, put the gun down and cursed while shaking my hand. They are low because of swaged bullets. As I researched loads in the meantime, I kept seeing the same several popping up again and again in sources from as recent as yesterday to long out of print books from when air travel was a newfangled wonder. It would seem that a 125 grain GDHP is of the same weight and would have a similar profile to what you want to use. You are being redirected - Shooters' Forum Using bullets from Hornady HP-XTP, Hornady HP-XTP or FP-XTP, Hornady FP-Cowboy, Hornady HBWC, Hornady SWC-HP, SWC or LRN. IT'S A COMBINATION TAPER AND ROLL CRIMP. The Pistol a Smith and Wesson model 27-2 The goal is two fold. Its worth mentioning that loaders do all kinds of obsessive rituals to squeeze the groups down. I never really set my sights, in a manner of speaking, on the .38 cartridge like I did other rounds. You may end up with one "not" clearing the barrel. Red Dot work fine for most 38 Special loads. But for plinking, they'd be fine. These are the bullets I bought: 158 gr from Roze dist. My other son fired one shot and handed it back. WC, 158 gr. of Bullseye, 148 gr lead DEWC and Federal 100 primers. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. have been factored in, but Looks like starting with roughly 4.2 of W231. in a belt holster at 4:00. Hornady I am loath to shoot several cylinders of standard pressure/velocity .38 Special 125 grain bullets out of a Smith and Wesson Model 642 revolver (or similar). rattlesnake of a revolver made me bleed. Shooter's Reference Load Data for .38 Special It is always higher when powder is next to primer. These are light and easy to shoot. Also some WSF. I believe this particular bullet is meant for the 9mm,but drops at 358. For best accuracy in slow fire shooting, you may want to raise gun before every shot. TITEGROUP AND 125GR 38 SPECIAL LOAD DATA Ammunition-Gunsmithing Reloading Forum Register Notices Consider Becoming A Supporting Member Click HERE For The Benefits Reloading All Reloading Topics Go Here Thread Tools Display Modes # 1 01-24-2016, 05:38 AM RONALD HENSLEY Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Waynesville NC Posts: 114 Likes: 12 Winchester's 231 or WSL are also good powders for the .38 special. Ive been looking for a reason to get into reloading, and am particularly intrigued by the extremely long case life of .38 Special. If there is only ONE load, it is MAX. Winchester 231 is between Bullseye and Unique for the .38 special (see my personal load above). You may find it will need to be faster for good 50 yd. Below, are three loaded rounds. My best group was .9 inch out of a Model 15. Classics go well together: circa 1909 S&W .38 Special and traditional 148-grain wadcutter load of 2.7 grains of Bullseye. I shoot almost exclusively cast lead from my handguns. Bullet seating depth is very forgiving. Berry says load plated bullets to mid-range jacketed bullets of same profile and weight or equal to hard cast. Unlike the author, I did *not* keep records, I cant even imagine how many rounds I loaded, almost 100% .357 magnum, since that was all I shot. I, like Spartacus, find the SAAMI recommendations an interesting spec for comparative purposes. And yes I appreciate them for a hunting gun because of their fine accuracy and find trigger pulls (older classic guns). You will be, essentially, making 38 Short Colt. Tim: The Lyman 49th edition lists the accuracy loads for their cast bullets. Ideal load in a 2 J Frame .38. 7.8 gr Blue Dot 1,170 fps 1.43" Fed 100 Alliant Suggested starting load: 7.0 gr Pressure: 15,700 4.5 gr Bullseye 1,085 fps 1.43" Fed 100 Alliant Suggested starting load: 4.1 gr Pressure: 14,900 Using higher pressure loads will wear brass out faster and it will become brittle with time. I tried 10 shots of each: 2.2, 2.4, 2.5, 2.7. The 357 magnum about 45,000 psi and the std 38 special about 17,000 psi. Dennis, I dont reload and Im only 72, but shooting the .38Spl in my 6 S&W 586 is a sublime experience. I found it to be a nice blend of accuracy, soft recoil, and sure functioning, with enough spice behind it to reliably topple steel targets. Min Charge Max Charge Optimal Charge Bullet Make Bullet Type Primer Notes; Hodgdon - 700-X: 125 gr. Load with 38 S&W data. I have the shrouded hammer version, the 638, and have been wary of training much with it because of its aluminum frame. 38 special is a great cartridge. When you say "not working" can you be more specific? I make a habit of counting the number of reloads I make by keeping a tally of primer and bullet boxes. If all you practice with is the easy comfortable stuff, its not really practice. My Lyman 49th has data for 125 gr JHP and 120 gr LRN. Load manuals often advise against downloading .38 Special jacketed loads to prevent squibs, especially the 110 and 125 grain bullets. WST for .38 special 125 gr plated bullets, Re: WST for .38 special 125 gr plated bullets. Since we are working with a gun that doesnt have a magazine, we can afford to mess with this dimension at will. 38 Special 17,000 Each of the classic loads is also economical. Reducing consumables (and therefore cost) that much more is definitely appealing to me. When I finally got my hands on a pound of Bullseye, I naturally started with some of these loads. Ive not had a handgun entirely reject either load, so the recipe seems to be a worthy third alongside the previous .38 and .45. They are reliable accurate and deadly. Cartridge : .38 Special (SAAMI)Bullet : .357, 125, FP Rainier Useable Case Capaci: 20.320 grain H2O = 1.319 cm Cartridge O.A.L. 38 Special +P 18,500 Ready to load some Berry's148 gr plated DE wadcutters with Bullseye. How Do I Choose Good Self-Defense Ammo For My Handgun? Does anyone have experience with loading WST for 125 gr plates bullets or a place to start the research/testing? And if youre doing that with a snub.let me know I wanna watch you shoot em. My M60 came w/ factory banana grips- open back, long enough for pinkie rest but too small in girth behind the trigger guard. 357 Magnum 35,000 I had enough, The Model 1911 pistol will officially turn 100 years old on May 5, 2011. Dec 18, 2011. As for the load ya the 158gr will probably take a little more, but your gun will tell you how much more.. Recoil is subjective and I feel no difference between that and an 750-775 fps load. Do not use anything but light loads and lead bullets in these older revolvers. A cold header, at their basic level, are multi ton power presses laying down on their side. I may have to rethink my plan. When I say that theres rarely a wrong way to do it, I really mean it. Disclaimer, I own or owned all the super calibers out there except the casull, theyre all fun and quite useful in some scenarios, but dont discount the old timer. Dont take this the wrong way; Im guessing the average age of .38 spl fans is about my age (70). I keep thinking about trading it for a Model 27 or, maybe, one of the new Pythons for extra weight. 44 Rem Mag 36,000. .38 Special Bullseye/148gr Berrys wadcutter???? - 24hourcampfire In a 1909 vintage Smith & Wesson target .38, the 2.7-grain load cut a nearly one-inch cluster, showing that classics go well together. 1.455 in. @ Grumpy- I tried LOTS of grips on S&W revolvers. I have loaded wadcutters for plinking , Double end 148 grain,, mixed brass over 2.7 gn WST or Bullseye. WAP, WMR, WSF, WSL, 760, 748, 231 and 540 are products of Winchester, Components Div.