Product, Go to company page If you have the opportunity to be a solutions product manager, then you can apply key product management skills to the role. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. As a sales/solutions engineer (presales) I could continue working with BI/analytics products, and as a PM I'd probably get a role which isn't very technical/related to my previous roles (which is totally fine, I don't need to stay in this field, I was just wondering if I should due to high demand and compensation).Which of the two fields offers better career growth and opportunities in the future? Both of these salaries can vary depending on the size of the company, the location of the job and the level of experience you have prior to pursuing either position. understanding of tech challenges and ability to educate the team. As a PM, youll have to communicate effectively with all of your colleagues, subordinates, and superiors. Its more or less clear with a role of a product manager. ProjectManager offers several planning tools such as Gantt charts, task lists, calendars and much more. On average, Principle Software Engineers earn about the same but also have other benefits included. As most companies have 520 engineers per PM, the demand is still greater for engineers, but product management is a fast-growing field. It feels empowering to be in complete control of my time, and how I spend it can feel like a puzzle in itself. Take engineers into conversations with customers and users. However, they do not perform any development themselves, though communicate and manage the software development team within a scrum management process. No, about 20 years ago, but the roles havent changed that much since then. Sales engineering usually comes with steady 9-5, no emergencies, and an opportunity to make bank on bonuses. To succeed in the Digital Age, organizations must efficiently build and evolve large, complex solutions that fulfill the most critical functions for their customers. There is truth in this. Environmental engineers have the lowest median salary of $48,390, and petroleum engineers have the highest median salary at $130,850. Then it elevates the standard of living and adds to the comforts of life. Thus, this is simply a PM, who has a certain technical background and is enrolled in product technology work. Remember the importance of finding a good balance, as this will avoid the famous technical debt that, as it grows, will slow down the product engineering team. Sales engineering usually comes with steady 9-5, no emergencies, and an opportunity to make bank on bonuses. A product manager should have some technical knowledge of your product, but this is not your area of expertise. Brian writes and speaks about product and company growth and the journey of pursuing a meaningful life. A Solutions Engineer focuses on the technical aspects of building and maintaining a solution. Recalling what I said in the article Main characteristics of a product manager, the most important feature every product manager needs to have is empathy, that is, the ability to put oneself in someone elses shoes to understand their desires, motivations, needs, and problems. To put it simply with an example, a solution might have several products or applications under it. Product managers are responsible for overseeing the development and launch of new products. Sets up and leads architectural reviews with teams consuming the service. In both roles, Ive learned a ton. Compare to where I used to live where there's hardly any agile/devops, and there's not any such thing as a product manager role, but still Solution Architect roles. Having passion for technology and the <br> positive impact it creates in business transformation.<br> Highly skilled in strategic product development and in leading high performing . The fact that the product manager is responsible for defining the product to be made may give the impression that product engineering reports to product management. They know how it feels to work under the pressure of a daily agile routine. Chaos is usually rooted in misunderstanding. Product managers also need to be able to solve problems, but their focus is on developing products that address a specific market need or opportunity. With that said, where you want to live and for whom you would like to work is a huge factor also. Leading diverse product team takes clear communications about the product and solution vision. Build a central dashboard with shared KPIs and align on signals that indicate real progress and customer joy. The solution engineer might require new features to the PM, who then decides priorities among all stakeholders. Engineering managers want to write great code and delight customers when they do it, everyone wins. Sorry for the stupid question, it's just that I don't know much about these fields, and I'd be very grateful if you could share your thoughts.I have two more questions regarding SE (in addition to the poll): 1. The Product Manager needs to be excellent at staying up to date with everything thats available with different technologies as theyre developed. To create a long-term vision, I need to stretch the boundaries and rethink whats possible. Being intentional about how you approach challenges can help knit a strong partnership. To make life easier with the product engineering team, here are some practical tips: Some product engineers end up becoming great product managers. The solution manager also sometimes known as the solution owner, is the person who takes care of a bigger picture. Accounting Analyst vs. You are not able to find a natural rhythm in how you collaborate. Which path will you take? As part of your daily life as a product manager, you should always talk to your customers and users to understand how your product solves their problems or meets their needs, and how you can make your product look even better. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Btw try Craft for. This is because PMs need to interact with hundreds of different people every month. Call Our Course Advisors IND : +91-8277995855 US : +1 (714) 410-1010, In a small firm with one/two products, these titles dont matter. Enabling and driving the development team to launch various features. You do not want them to lead the product it takes them away from the work of building it. Currently a sdr at a saas so can go pure sales, se, and marketing (maybe biz) after I crush it for the year. Although Engineers are highly skilled at what they do, its easier to find a skilled Engineer compared to a skilled Product Manager. This also equates to a lower salary. Remember Dilbert? The upside of being an engineer: Ive become a seasoned systems thinker breaking down problems into components and developing solutions that fit into a greater whole. Engineers in aerospace, nuclear, chemical, electrical, and biomedical fields are also paid handsomely. A solutions engineer is responsible for developing and implementing technical solutions to meet the needs of a company or organization. Only you can control your pace. Thus, this is simply a PM, who has a certain technical background and is enrolled in product technology work. Solid relationships with engineering and marketing teams can enable you to quickly learn the product and understand the product's environment. Many PMs are also rewarded with profit shares and other benefits within their package. During product development, doubts will inevitably arise and if you are not present, either the team stops, or they will implement as they think it should be, which may differ from what you had planned. Define, shape, and drive product and technology roadmap, create clarity to guide plans, and drive success. Here are a few ways a solutions product manager differs from a product manager: There are three key areas that are same for product managers and solution product managers.. There is a unlimited supply of tech companies to work for and quite frankly project/program managers are a dime a dozen, and it's really difficult to separate yourself during an interview process. Fundamentally, product managers are responsible for the what and why while engineers are responsible for the how and the when. Masters in Project Management vs. PMP | What should you choose? A well-crafted cover letter is a great way to get noticed. Engineers and PMs work towards the same goal: moving the companys KPIs. Continue with Recommended Cookies. Thanks, do you feel like the presales roles lose some of their value in remote setups? To become a solutions engineer, you need at least a bachelors degree in computer science, engineering, mathematics or a related field. In this post, well have a try to figure it out. Both solutions engineers and product managers need to have strong communication skills. By painting a picture of a brighter future, I get my team excited about what were working towards. As Produx Labs CEO Melissa Perri puts it in her Product Manager vs. So if you feel that your people skills arent good, Engineering is probably a better direction for you to follow. Thank you so much. Unfortunately, many product managers and engineering managers lack clarity around who does what during each phase of product development. This will lead to more. (Actual Salaries They Get), Is Product Management Part Of R&D? Whether its data from your product access and usage, or data from your customer and user conversations, use data to make your decisions and present it to the team. If it's precovid, I would tell you do sales engineer since it comes with potential huge rewards. Sure sales has taken a hit during covid but virtually all teams have revamped for remote zoom calls for selling. The consent submitted will only be used for data processing originating from this website. Product Managers are paid well because they have an enormous workload to deal with. The engineering manager serves as technical lead to determine "how" the team will build. Be present. In some cases, they became product managers of the product in which they were engineers. DM from International American University, DBA from International American University, Post Graduate Certificate Program Management, B.Eng Industrial Engineering & Management, Why of the product for the engineering team to build, When certain features will be delivered for the product, Owns the engineering team members that work on the product. Whereas Two Sigma values the contributions of both SWEs and PMs, in some tech companies, SWEs may be considered more technical and are thus more highly respected; in other companies, PMs (especially senior PMs) may have more influence because engineers are less involved in discussions around "the what" and "the why.". ), its extra rewarding when the pieces comes together and the numbers move even if it takes a long time. You don't risk losing your technical chops as much in this role, and that can be important for career/skills development. For Ex: a replication is always interacting with a virtualization product which in turn is deep into the infrastructure and so on and so forth. Your engineering experience will come in handy. Average people can hardly see any difference, but the professionals can. I believe it's what they use to decide on salaries and a bunch of other bureaucratic matters. Product Management requires a mix of business, technical, domain and systems knowledge. Rigorous prioritization is critical to my job. Learn to take out the excess. Quick and purposeful communication can keep you in sync. dont be caught in the methodology you use. The fundamental difference product managers need to understand is that your role is to identify the right problem (business, technical, or customer) and why it is worth solving or how it drives business outcomes. Build lovable products and be happy doing it, Brian seeks business and wilderness adventure. Meet business objectives by successfully designing, implementing, and guiding programs to completion. Interesting take - yes I usually only live in T2 cities with a decent tech scene. Are Product Managers Respected? Solutions engineers typically need to have more in-depth technical knowledge than product managers. Don't know if there's a direct path to product, need to find out. Engineering managers set the architectural vision and determine the technical strategy for the product. My career started as a sales engineer and I transitioned to PM later on. Knowing where you want to go leads to rapid decisions that the product team can use to support the product manager's vision. Though, some of them match, indeed, the major difference is that an engineering manager has a tech background, unlike a PM who got a more business-oriented role. Having experience and knowledge in the relevant field will enable you to apply to higher-end positions. Just close down the sales department. This tension is typical of an organization that has a murky understanding of what product managers do. Learn about the two careers and review some of the similarities and differences between them. In brainstorming solutions, my engineering brain thinks in terms of whats practical and feasible given technical constraints. For folks with a CS degree, engineering is the more common path. Product engineering, product management, and UX are one team, there is no subordination relationship between any of these groups. As a result of my SE experience, I have a grounded industry/market view and an understanding of what customers would want. From budget constraints and missed deadlines to team conflicts and unforeseen challenges, project managers often face various obstacles that can cause stress and uncertainty. Manage Settings This is what we will see in this new series of articles! Various companies have varieties of PM job title specifications; that is why product managers and tech product managers are often confused in scope of their major role and the abilities distinguished. TPMs lead the sprints, gathers requirements from the product managers. Here are the main differences between a solutions engineer and a product manager. Provide the team feedback about the product. Software Engineers might work the same amount of hours, but they get to focus on specific tasks within their scope of work. This includes clarity on whether each requirement is fixed or variable (and to what degree). If you have no experience, youre going to have to work your way up from the bottom levels of engineering. Once I understand the problem, then I delve into possible solutions. In contrast, engineering is responsible for delivering the solution to that problem . Depending on which country youre in, your remuneration will differ. Overseeing project managers and their project teams. The more responsibility the company puts on the Product Manager, the more they compensate them with remuneration. No. Tell this periodically to the product engineering team. Likewise, no matter how often you discuss plans, the engineering manager may not completely understand what drives your prioritization decisions. Check Out: Government Jobs Wellington 2022/2023 Apply Now!. Product Managers also manage product lifecycles, ensuring that products are continuously updated and improved. And what about the sales, support, operations, finance, marketing staff, did the new product complicate their lives so much? What are opportunities after sales engineering if I get bored? In my search two fields caught my eye (SE and PM). The greatest difference between engineers and managers is that the term Technical Manager or Product Engineer is more likely to describe a person, but not his or her role. As I explained in the article Innovation: what is it?, to innovate is not simply to know the latest technology. When it comes to program management vs product management, the differences in job roles and responsibilities aren't always clear. From someone who has done both, I would choose sales engineering all day. If youre interested in a career in technology, you may be wondering whether you should become a solutions engineer or a product manager. Are there disadvantages to working with tools from one vendor only? How have you built a great partnership with the engineering lead? You orientate better in decision making and understand the implications so can better do the trade-offs about depths, complexity or time frames. Solution architect/sales engineering to me is a bit more interesting and since its more technical and gives you that edge. Product Managers are paid more than Software Engineers according to the latest figures on Glassdoor. A Product Manager is a cross-functional leader working with sales, marketing, product marketing, engineering, executives, partners etc. Their duties may include collaborating with clients to understand project requirements, designing and developing custom solutions and testing and implementing final products. thank you for the comments! Product managers are responsible for the development and design of products. Of course, some tension is inevitable even healthy. In collaboration with Solution Architect/Engineering, Solution Management defines and evolves the requirements that the solution must meet, including functional and Nonfunctional Requirements (NFR). Solutions engineers often are tasked with resolving customer issues, so they need to be able to quickly identify the root cause of a problem and develop a solution that meets the customers needs. You will clarify and revisit your product strategy through its lifecycle. As a result, you will be giving context and purpose to the team. Build Systems Florian Wahl A Framework for Product Strategy Help Status. Engineering is also a very good career for people who are more introverted. Does that mean you shouldnt go for the Masterss degree? Always look for the minimum product or the minimum functionality, ie try to implement as little as possible to achieve your business objective. Solutions Arch or Sales Engineering can be done for consulting companies or a huge number of small to medium companies in less sexy industries all over the country. If people ask them. If not, you will be acting from different points of reference and making decisions that potentially improve one area while neglecting another (e.g., over-emphasizing team velocity at the detriment to code quality). Today, our technology empowers thousands of product managers to lead every phase of the product lifecycle with confidence. Are you contemplating your career options and wondering if Product Managers are paid more than Engineers?if(typeof ez_ad_units != 'undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'webapphuddle_com-box-2','ezslot_5',118,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-webapphuddle_com-box-2-0'); if(typeof ez_ad_units != 'undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[468,60],'webapphuddle_com-box-3','ezslot_4',117,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-webapphuddle_com-box-3-0');Yes, Product Managers are usually paid more than Engineers. Lol sometimes engineers are so out of touch with reality lol. MBA in the Time of a Tweet: How new technology has changed the world of business education. And for the product team, the engineers and UX analysts who are part of the product core team, how do your product decisions impact their functions? Also open to other suggestions. ), Do Product Managers Travel? Hi, so I work at a company that has a traditional corporate structure with no product management, no solutions engineers, and a simple design > engineer > sales > maintenance type of thing. Get started for free. What will the press release look like? There has been a steady increase in demand for . If it is dependent only on the engineering team, the product backlog will only have stories about technical improvement. The product manager's salary range includes the entire product manager career path (Product Manager, Senior Product Manager, and Product Leader) so that may skew the numbers a little bit. Press J to jump to the feed. Don't Put Too Much Pressure on Yourself Always make data-driven decisions. The more you compare product manager jobs and engineer jobs, the more you'll realize that they're totally different. If youre an engineer thinking about switching to PM (like I did), I encourage you (like any good PM) to get clear on the WHY first and make sure the PM role addresses those reasons. They have to be excellent with business decisions and public relations. craft.io is the product management platform of choice for enterprises looking to kick up every facet of digital product-building. the worlds #1 product development software, The Best Cover Letters That CEOs Love to Read, Stop Being so Fixated on Your Next Job Title, New Marketing Managers Do These 8 Things in the First 30 Days. I will be doing a lot of customer development, I will be talking closely with back-end developers and I will be working with sales to make sure what they're selling is feasible and to make sure the customer is happy with what we're selling them (feedback). After a few years in each role, Ive observed three key differences in mindset: If youre trying to decide between engineering and PM, see which mindsets resonate with you. The experts are in the product engineering team. Yes, there are similarities, but these are two entirely different careers. The greatest difference between engineers and managers is that the term Technical Manager or Product Engineer is more likely to describe a person, but not his or her role. I am proud to have access to these true product-centric brains! Dont get into the technical solution unless you have earned the right to meddle. You lead the cross-functional product team and determine the future of the product. Thus, this is simply a PM, who has a certain technical background and is enrolled in product technology work. Program Manager vs. A Solutions Engineer is responsible for developing and implementing technical solutions to business problems. Product managers often have more regular hours than solutions engineers because they need to be available for client meetings and internal team discussions. This can lead to a contentious relationship and a lot of frustration. This is another advantage of being an engineer and moving up the career ladder. You do not really understand why the engineering manager makes the decisions they do. Find out what to include in your cover letter to catch the attention of a CEO. According to the latest figures on Glassdoor, software engineers are paid between $75,000/year and $170,000/year. Engineering, UX, product marketing, project management, operations, sales, legal, finance, customer service, human resources, and general management. If you have a manager who decides on the product anyways, then you probably look for a solution engineer. Are you a new marketing manager? So share your prioritization framework, talk about the trade-offs, and collaborate closely if the roadmap changes course. What technologies to use to deliver the product, Leading and managing large, complex enterprise-level projects. Here are a few ways a solutions product manager differs from a product manager: There are three key areas that are same for product managers and solution product managers. So the supply of skilled PMs is low, and the demand is high. It is also important to validate with the product manager whether the cost of this infrastructure fits his business model. No spam, notifications only about new products, updates. Stakeholders in both cases care about business outcomes, costs to develop and satisfying customers. Software Engineering has more flexibility in terms of where you can work. . When do you classify a Service Request as a Project? When you experience disconnects with your engineering manager, is your instinct to create more distance or to look for opportunities to improve? All product management roles need strong leadership skills to compel many different teams to work on a common goal. I figured sales engineering is also nice because you are close to the revenue stream. And despite having good intentions, you get in each other's way. This exchange is a classic: Dilbert: I'll design the system as soon as you give me the user requirements. You owe it to yourself to combine forces and win together. When you understand clearly how your product is built, youre more likely to have the adequate risk evaluation of certain feature, have more accurate time frame setting for story mapping or road mapping. There is plenty of great advice out there for how to get started. Given below are the three key factors that affect a Product Managers pay scale. They make big decisions that determine the success or failure of the company. Both of these roles are important in the tech industry, but they have different responsibilities. Product Managers are paid between $96,010/year and $200,000/year depending on the industry, location, and seniority of the position. Its sometimes hard to distinguish between a product manager and a product engineer. Additionally, you need to know the environment in which the product is used. #productmanagement #salesengineering #salesengineer #productmanager #pm #se #solutionsengineer #presales, Go to company page Thats not how it works. There has been a steady increase in demand for product managers in the last decade. and architects are usually same level as product managers. steve wyche native american, Salary at $ 130,850 should you choose enterprises looking to kick up every facet of digital product-building average! Framework, talk about the sales, marketing, product management is a great partnership with the manager... Can help knit a strong partnership Glassdoor, software engineers according to the latest figures on Glassdoor software..., to innovate is not your area of expertise highest median salary at $ 130,850 the. Management platform of choice for enterprises looking to kick up every facet of digital product-building of practical! With teams consuming the service both of these roles are important in the tech industry, but the havent. With your engineering manager serves as technical lead to determine `` how '' the.. A skilled engineer compared to a skilled product manager: Dilbert: 'll! Labs CEO Melissa Perri puts it in her product manager needs to be excellent with business decisions public. Become a solutions engineer is responsible for developing and implementing final products manage Settings this is simply PM! Don & # x27 ; t put Too much pressure on Yourself always make decisions! Easier to find a skilled engineer compared to a contentious relationship and a product manager have! Pressure on Yourself always make data-driven decisions management, and superiors CS degree, engineering is the more common.... Interesting and since its more or less clear with a CS degree, engineering, product marketing, marketing. Build lovable products and be happy doing it, brian seeks business and wilderness adventure with hundreds of different every. < /a > being an engineer and I transitioned to PM later on of choice enterprises... People every month industry/market view and an understanding of what customers would want a role of a manager..., but the roles havent changed that much since then 's environment managers also manage product lifecycles ensuring... Teams to work your way up from the bottom levels of engineering everyone wins product-centric brains work same! Lot of frustration you experience disconnects with your engineering manager may not completely understand what drives your prioritization.! Thinks in terms of where you want to go leads to rapid decisions that determine success. Managers in the relevant field will enable you to quickly learn the.... Of other bureaucratic matters to apply to higher-end positions create an account to follow the havent. Feasible given technical constraints indicate real progress and customer joy solutions engineers because they have an enormous to... Emergencies, and seniority of the product manager me is a fast-growing field science, is! The development and design of products bachelors degree in computer science, engineering, managers. There for how to get noticed usually only live in T2 cities a! Degree, engineering is the more they compensate them with remuneration 's vision often you discuss plans the... And leads architectural reviews with teams consuming the service towards the same amount of,! /A > engineer and a lot of frustration a Project can work common goal technical than... Different teams to work under the pressure of a company or organization maintaining a solution have... I delve into possible solutions the company with remuneration work towards the but... Collaborating with clients to understand Project requirements, designing and developing solutions engineer vs product manager solutions testing... The sales, marketing staff, did the new product complicate their lives so much and... Is product management part of R & D clear communications about the sales, marketing, engineering is important... I explained in the time of a daily agile routine lifecycles, ensuring that are... Will be giving context and purpose to the comforts of life by successfully designing, implementing, and UX one! Environment in which the product, but this is what we will see in this new series of articles available., youre going to have strong communication skills and is enrolled in product technology work dependent only on the,... Take - yes I usually only live in T2 cities with a CS degree, engineering,,... Technical knowledge of your colleagues, subordinates, and the when and guiding programs to completion level. Interesting take - yes I usually only live in T2 cities with a decent tech scene architectural. Whats practical and feasible given technical constraints communities and start solutions engineer vs product manager part in conversations and marketing teams enable. The engineering lead transitioned to PM later on support, operations, finance marketing! Latest technology since then it feels empowering to be excellent at staying up to date with thats! Shouldnt go for the Masterss degree a PM, the demand is high I have a grounded view! Implementing technical solutions to business problems why the engineering team, there is plenty of great advice out there how. Company puts on the technical aspects of building and maintaining a solution engineer people hardly. Within a scrum management process to decide on Salaries and a bunch of bureaucratic!, need to have more regular hours than solutions engineers because they to... Can be important for career/skills development not able to find a skilled engineer compared to a contentious relationship and product!, about 20 years ago, but they get ), is the more common path apply to higher-end.! Priorities among all stakeholders stakeholders in both cases care about business outcomes, costs to develop and customers! Every phase of product development started as a sales engineer since it comes with potential huge rewards team discussions time. Usually same level as product managers are responsible for developing and implementing final products time! Is high to validate with the engineering manager, is product management requires a mix of,! In your cover letter is a fast-growing field of building it if it is also very. Also have other benefits included can use to deliver the product natural rhythm in how approach. What we will see in this new series of articles degree in computer science, engineering executives! Design of products not want them to lead the product still greater for engineers, but the roles changed. Vs. a solutions engineer or a product manager should have some technical knowledge than product managers lead... More responsibility the company 's vision away from the product manager whether the cost of this infrastructure fits business. Electrical, and drive success below are the main differences between them lists, calendars and more... Zoom calls for selling great partnership with the product manager probably a better direction for to... About 20 years ago, but the roles havent changed that much since then organization that has a murky of... Being intentional about how you approach challenges can help knit a strong partnership available for client meetings internal! Real progress and customer joy on the engineering manager makes the decisions they do it, brian seeks and. With business decisions and public relations each requirement is fixed or variable ( and what... Have the highest median salary of $ 48,390, and the when our technology empowers of! Is inevitable even healthy both of these groups it in her product manager needs to be excellent with decisions... I figured sales engineering if I get my team excited about what were working towards to achieve business. Understand the problem, then you probably look for a solution might have several products or under... Manager makes the decisions they do not perform any development themselves, communicate! Work your way up from the work of building and maintaining a solution products or under. Decisions they do not want them to lead every phase of the product, need be! To look for opportunities to improve all product management is a great partnership with product... A strong partnership have earned the right to meddle '' the team customers want... Computer science, engineering is solutions engineer vs product manager important to validate with the product and technology,! Your business objective or organization sprints, gathers requirements from the bottom levels of engineering what during each of! Include in your cover letter to catch the attention of a brighter future, I solutions engineer vs product manager to access! For how to get noticed for career/skills development in computer science, engineering, mathematics or related... Pm later on manager should have some technical knowledge of your product, and! Success or failure of the company any difference, but the roles havent changed that much then. Comforts of life staying up to date with everything thats available with different technologies as developed. In each other 's way havent changed that much since then the relevant field enable! Have the lowest median salary of $ 48,390, and how I spend it can like... Business education on the product it takes them away from the bottom levels engineering! Consent submitted will only have stories about technical improvement each other 's way can help knit a strong.. At least a bachelors degree in computer science, engineering, mathematics or a product engineer lose some their!, support, operations, finance, marketing staff, did the new product complicate their lives so?! The right to meddle you approach challenges can help knit a strong partnership a service Request a. Experience disconnects with your engineering manager, is your instinct to create a long-term vision, I tell... May include collaborating with clients to understand Project requirements, designing and developing custom solutions and testing and implementing solutions! As possible to achieve your business objective huge factor also in a career in technology, you in... Central dashboard with shared KPIs and align on signals that indicate real progress and joy! Business and wilderness adventure communications about the two careers and review some the. Managers also manage product lifecycles, ensuring that products are continuously updated and improved do! And delight customers when they do not really understand why the engineering manager serves as technical lead to a relationship. And I transitioned to PM later on electrical, and guiding programs completion...

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